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Maintenance Phase

Hosted by Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

Health science and pop culture podcast debunking the junk science behind health fads, wellness scams, and nonsensical nutrition advice. Hosted by Aubrey Gordon and Michael Hobbes. Rigorous, funny, and deeply skeptical of the wellness industry.

52 episodes processed

38 canon references

Episodes

# · Apr 1, 2026 · 1h 7m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

What do you do when you've flamed out as a Hollywood actor, a political commentator and a wellness guru? You make a YouTube channel.

# · Mar 17, 2026 · 1h 14m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

Tracing the left-to-right political trajectory of the unfunniest man in British comedy. Support us: Hear bonus episodes on PatreonWatch Aubrey's documentaryBuy Aubrey's bookListen to Mike's other podcastGet Maintenance Phase T-shirts, stickers and moreLinks!

# · Feb 12, 2026 · 57m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

The rags-to-riches tale of how an illegal methamphetamine manufacturer became a legal methamphetamine manufacturer. Support us: Hear bonus episodes on PatreonWatch Aubrey's documentaryBuy Aubrey's bookListen to Mike's other podcastGet Maintenance Phase T-shirts, stickers and moreLinks!

# · Feb 12, 2026 · 68m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

Metabolife: how an illegal methamphetamine manufacturer became a legal methamphetamine manufacturer — the rags-to-riches story of the ephedra diet pill empire that killed over 150 people before the FDA could stop it.

1 canon
# · Nov 13, 2025 · 1h 6m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

Once widely banned, raw milk consumption is on the rise and states are repealing their bans. No one’s happier about that than the far right. How did we get here? NOTE: In the retelling of Pasteur’s early pasteurization, Aubrey misspoke! The culprit wasn’t lactic yeast, it was lactic acid bacteria.

# · Nov 13, 2025 · 63m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

Raw milk: how states are repealing pasteurization bans in the name of 'health freedom.' The real history of pasteurization (it saved millions of children from dying of tuberculosis), and why the raw milk movement is nostalgia disguised as science.

1 canon
# · Sep 25, 2025 · 53m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

One blogger bravely pushes back against Starbucks, Subway and basic scientific facts. Support us: Hear bonus episodes on PatreonWatch Aubrey's documentaryBuy Aubrey's bookListen to Mike's other podcastGet Maintenance Phase T-shirts, stickers and more Links!

# · Sep 25, 2025 · 70m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

Vani Hari, the Food Babe: the blogger who pushed back against Starbucks, Subway, and basic scientific facts. Her army of followers got companies to change ingredients through pressure campaigns based on misunderstanding of chemistry.

1 canon
# · Aug 26, 2025 · 1h 19m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

Why are you, as a man, afraid of sunflowers. Support us: Hear bonus episodes on PatreonWatch Aubrey's documentaryBuy Aubrey's bookListen to Mike's other podcastGet Maintenance Phase T-shirts, stickers and moreLinks!

# · Aug 26, 2025 · 65m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

Seed oils: are they actually toxic? The evidence is far weaker than the discourse suggests. How a legitimate concern about omega-6/omega-3 ratios became a moral panic where 'seed oil avoiders' police restaurant menus.

1 canon
# · Jul 10, 2025 · 57m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

We’re talking about our first diet MLM and IT’S A REAL DOOZY! Support us: Hear bonus episodes on PatreonWatch Aubrey's documentaryBuy Aubrey's bookListen to Mike's other podcastGet Maintenance Phase T-shirts, stickers and more Links!

# · Jul 10, 2025 · 73m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

Herbalife: a diet MLM that preys on immigrant communities with the promise of health and wealth while delivering neither. The convergence of diet culture, multi-level marketing, and exploitation of vulnerable populations.

2 canon
# · Jun 3, 2025 · 1h 11m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

Everyone agrees that processed foods are bad for you. When it comes to defining what they actually are, however, there is considerably less agreement.

# · May 1, 2025 · 53m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

From our Patreon feed, we're catching up with RFK Jr. and his cadre of "Make America Healthy Again" influencers.

# · Mar 26, 2025 · 54m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

Meet the tech bro on a noble quest to double his lifespan, improve his productivity and irritate his waitress. Support us: Hear bonus episodes on PatreonWatch Aubrey's documentaryBuy Aubrey's bookListen to Mike's other podcastGet Maintenance Phase T-shirts, stickers and moreLinks!

# · Mar 26, 2025 · 69m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

Dave Asprey's Bulletproof Diet: butter in coffee, mycotoxin panic, and the biohacking-to-product pipeline. How Silicon Valley's optimization culture created a diet empire built on unfalsifiable claims and expensive supplements.

1 canon
# · Jan 30, 2025 · 1h 8m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

The places where humans live the longest are explained by traditional lifestyles, widespread incest or systematic fraud, there is no fourth option. Thanks to Catherine MacDonald for helping us research and fact-check this episode!

# · Jan 30, 2025 · 70m
Michael Hobbes

Mike and Aubrey investigate the Blue Zones concept -- the five regions where people supposedly live the longest. They examine the evidence and find serious problems with the data, including age fraud, inconsistent record-keeping, and cherry-picked communities.

2 canon
# · Jan 9, 2025 · 58m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

The annual awards show for the worst wellness grifts of the year: SkinnyTok, smart toilets that analyze your stool composition, and restaurants offering smaller portions 'for women and short kings.'

1 canon
# · Jan 9, 2025 · 65m
Aubrey Gordon

Mike and Aubrey trace Russell Brand's transformation from comedian to wellness guru, examining how he leveraged recovery narratives, spiritual language, and anti-establishment rhetoric to build a massive wellness brand before his sexual assault allegations.

3 canon
# · Dec 20, 2024 · 1h 12m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

Because we live in hell, here is last month's bonus episode about RFK Jr.'s presidential campaign with a new intro about what he could do at HHS. See you next year! Support the show

# · Dec 20, 2024 · 54m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

A special episode on RFK Jr.'s appointment to HHS: his anti-vaccine history, his MAHA (Make America Healthy Again) rhetoric, and why wellness populism is dangerous when it has institutional power.

1 canon
# · Nov 21, 2024 · 1h 6m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

The internet gets weird investigating the "disappearance" of America's gay best friend.

# · Oct 25, 2024 · 1h 2m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

Before building his fitness empire, America’s most bedazzled fitness guru was a guy named Milton from New Orleans.

# · Oct 25, 2024 · 66m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

Richard Simmons part 1: the unlikely story of how a bullied, fat kid from New Orleans became America's most famous fitness personality — and the only mainstream fitness figure who actually seemed to care about fat people.

2 canon
# · Sep 19, 2024 · 60m
Aubrey Gordon

Aubrey walks Mike through diet advice from Sophia Loren, Victoria Principal, and Cher, revealing that celebrity diet books of the 1980s promoted dangerously low calorie counts, bizarre food combinations, and body standards that required both genetic luck and professional assistance to achieve.

1 canon
# · Sep 12, 2024 · 55m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

How a mother, a daughter and a crackpot Swiss psychologist gave us the world's most popular Buzzfeed quiz. Support us: Hear bonus episodes on PatreonDonate on PayPalGet Maintenance Phase T-shirts, stickers and moreWatch Aubrey's documentaryBuy Aubrey's bookListen to Mike's other podcastLinks!

# · Sep 12, 2024 · 62m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

Myers-Briggs: the personality test used by 88% of Fortune 500 companies that has zero predictive validity. How a mother-daughter team with no psychology training created one of the most profitable assessment tools in history.

1 canon
# · Jul 25, 2024 · 68m
Michael Hobbes

Mike and Aubrey examine the ultra-processed food panic, tracing the NOVA classification system from its origins in Brazilian public health research to its adoption as a moral framework in the anglophone wellness world.

2 canon
# · Jul 1, 2024 · 1h 3m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

We went a little easy on the Cass Report in our last main feed episode, so we're back to [Mortal Kombat voice] FINISH HIM!!! This was supposed to be a Patreon bonus episode but we'd rather you support the lovely trans people who helped us with the research and fact-checking of this episode!

# · Jun 18, 2024 · 1h 31m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

Thanks to Jules Gill-Peterson (jgillpeterson.com) and Julia Serano (patreon.com/juliaserano) for help researching this episode and Evan Urquhart, Parker Molloy and Katelyn Burns for fact-checking!

# · May 9, 2024 · 1h 28m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

Thanks to Jules Gill-Peterson (jgillpeterson.com) and Julia Serano (patreon.com/juliaserano) for help researching this episode and Evan Urquhart and Parker Molloy for fact-checking!

# · Apr 4, 2024 · 1h 3m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

In the 2000s, Jamie Oliver made a big splash with his work reforming kids’ meals in the UK and US. Was his work wicked slammin’, or just proper rustic?

# · Mar 7, 2024 · 1h 28m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

What was missing from America's pandemic response? According to the internet, a sunshine vitamin, a malaria treatment and a whole lot of horse paste. Thanks to Health Nerd (Substack) for helping us fact-check this episode!

# · Mar 7, 2024 · 72m
Aubrey Gordon

Mike and Aubrey dig through the sensational claims around GLP-1 drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy, examining the gap between clinical trial data and media hype. They trace how these drugs became framed as the end of the obesity epidemic despite limited long-term data and significant side effects.

3 canon
# · Oct 10, 2023 · 58m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

Ozempic is being hailed as “the end of the Obesity Epidemic.” This week, Mike and Aubrey dig through the sensational claims. But will they make it past the caveats?

# · Sep 12, 2023 · 44m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

How a plant-based pejorative went from an alt-right burn to a core concern of mainstream Republicans. Support us: Hear bonus episodes on PatreonDonate on PayPalGet Maintenance Phase T-shirts, stickers and moreBuy Aubrey's bookListen to Mike's other podcastLinks!

# · Aug 1, 2023 · 1h 14m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

Join us for a 75 minute answer to a 5 word question: Is there mercury in vaccines? Support us: Hear bonus episodes on PatreonDonate on PayPalGet Maintenance Phase T-shirts, stickers and moreBuy Aubrey's bookListen to Mike's other podcastLinks!

# · Jul 18, 2023 · 1h 15m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

A political candidate has some questions and we have some extremely obvious answers. Support us: Hear bonus episodes on PatreonDonate on PayPalGet Maintenance Phase T-shirts, stickers and moreBuy Aubrey's bookListen to Mike's other podcastLinks!

# · Jul 4, 2023 · 45m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes (solo)

Somehow an episode about an old-timey fitness influencer ended up being one of our most wholesome ever. We're as surprised as you are. Support us: Hear bonus episodes on PatreonDonate on PayPalGet Maintenance Phase T-shirts, stickers and moreBuy Aubrey's bookListen to Mike's other podcastLinks!

# · Apr 11, 2023 · 63m
Michael Hobbes

Mike and Aubrey investigate the USDA Food Pyramid, revealing how agricultural industry lobbying transformed a science-based nutrition graphic into a marketing tool for commodity crops. The pyramid prioritized grain industry profits over public health.

1 canon
# · Sep 27, 2022 · 59m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

The French Paradox: how a 60 Minutes segment in 1991 turned red wine into a health food and created a billion-dollar resveratrol supplement industry. The data was cherry-picked, the mechanism was wrong, and the French aren't actually healthier.

1 canon
# · Sep 13, 2022 · 72m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

Gwyneth Paltrow's Goop: jade eggs, psychic vampire repellent, and the 'detox' empire. How celebrity authority launders pseudoscience, and why the target audience isn't stupid — they're underserved by a healthcare system that doesn't listen to women.

1 canon
# · Dec 14, 2021 · 56m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

Is there really a sleep loss epidemic? Hobbes examines Matthew Walker's Why We Sleep claims and finds significant exaggerations: the data on sleep duration decline is weaker than claimed, and the health effects of modest sleep reduction are overstated.

1 canon
# · Aug 17, 2021 · 68m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

Part 2 of the BMI deep dive: the 'obesity epidemic' narrative examined. How statistical redefinition, not actual health changes, created millions of new 'overweight' Americans overnight — and why the epidemic framing serves industry more than public health.

1 canon
# · Aug 3, 2021 · 71m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

BMI was invented by a Belgian mathematician in the 1830s who explicitly said it shouldn't be used to measure individual health. It was adopted by insurance companies in the 1960s because it was cheap and easy, not because it was accurate.

1 canon
# · Apr 27, 2021 · 60m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

Eating disorders: the most lethal mental illness, with mortality rates higher than depression, schizophrenia, or bipolar disorder. Why diet culture IS eating disorder culture, and how the same behaviors praised as 'discipline' in thin bodies are diagnosed as illness in thin-enough bodies.

1 canon
# · Mar 16, 2021 · 64m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

Weight Watchers: the most successful diet brand in history, with a 95% failure rate. How the program profits from recidivism — lifetime members who rejoin are the core business model.

2 canon
# · Feb 16, 2021 · 67m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

How 'America's Doctor' became TV's leading purveyor of junk science. Green coffee bean extract, raspberry ketones, and a salad-dressing skincare regimen — the pattern of promising miracle cures that don't survive scrutiny.

1 canon
# · Feb 2, 2021 · 58m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

The history of snake oil — which was actually a real Chinese remedy that worked. How a con man's fake version destroyed the reputation of traditional medicine and created the template for modern wellness grifting.

1 canon
# · Jan 19, 2021 · 62m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

The Biggest Loser as a case study in metabolic damage: NIH research showed contestants' metabolisms slowed by 500+ calories/day and NEVER recovered, even 6 years later. The show that proved extreme dieting permanently breaks metabolism.

2 canon
# · Nov 24, 2020 · 55m
Aubrey Gordon & Michael Hobbes

The pilot episode: Aubrey and Michael lay the foundation — anti-fat bias is not just mean, it's medically harmful. Fat patients receive worse care, are diagnosed later, and die younger not because of their weight but because of how doctors treat them.

2 canon